Francesco Cascavilla is a brillaint photograher based in Rome, Italy and Lyra Pramuk is a berlin-based singer, composer-producer and performance artist. Two years ago, they both meet in Francesco’s studio with stylist Gabriele Papi for a photo-shoot. Originally named “Dreaming Of Lyra” this serie is about a trans woman photographed at the beginning of her journey. Two years later, they both come back on this incredible experience and the progress in their lives.
Francesco Cascavilla: It has been a long time since the last time we have had a chat just the two of us.
Lyra Pramuk: I know, we haven’t seen each other in a while.
Francesco: I have this curious feeling right now seeing ourselves today while remembering the two of us 2 years ago, in my studio when we took these pictures. Even if we were not fully aware of it that was the beginning of a completely new life cycle, for both of us. How did you feel back then?
Lyra: When we did the shoot it was a very fun/fantastical thing for me. Of course I was confused and things were new but the shooting was a very positive thing.
Francesco: The way I see it is: this was the beginning of you meeting you, you coming closer to your authenticity. This is the reason why this pictures are so special to me, It is as if in each of them there is the seed of who you have now become.
Lyra: Yes, definitely. I think this is a beautiful way of putting it, it was intense. How many days did we shot, 2 or 3?
Francesco: Two, I think.
Lyra: I was so excited about the shooting because it was all about playing and transformation in a moment in my life where I really needed and wanted to transform. There were so many things in the studio, It was a nice playground for me of self experimentation in so many different ways, because some of the photos are very boyish, some of them are very feminine, most of them are somewhere in between.
Francesco: I like this idea of the playground! For me the clothes were never the point… Of course I love fashion, I love dressing up and make up, but these are just tools . What excites me is when people open up to express themselves and this what I saw in you back then… Me and Gabriele ( the stylist ) felt it and knew it was something that needed to be documented, to be crystallized in an image.
Lyra: Yes, this was one of the longest shoots with the most options that I ever did, but also one of the first times that I really started to be vulnerable in a sense of taking care of myself, to…
Francesco: To open up?
Lyra: Yes, to open up, but also to be vulnerable enough to say ” I want to do this, this is what I feel that I actually am.”
Francesco: I have a question for you. I am sure that there are a lot of boys out there that feel the same way you felt: they sense there is “something more” but they don’t know what it is. They just feel “it” is there and that “it” needs to come out. From your perspective of today, after your journey over these last two years, if you would happen to talk with one of them what would you tell them?
Lyra: I think I was really fighting myself back then, because I was afraid. Afraid of what people would think of me, afraid of what my family would think of me. I know that there are many other people like that, but these kind of people don’t show themselves to others. For me it is a miracle that I decided I was going to do queer performance and to embrace this journey the whole way.
Francesco: What I see is that most people live conditioned by an idea of how they believe they are supposed to be. Society keep screaming: “THIS is sexy, THAT is disgusting! THIS is attractive, THAT is repulsive! THIS is lovable, THAT is unlovable!” And I can see why it is so scary and frightening to jump out of the current model of “perfection” straight in the unknown. Ultimately we all want so badly to feel loved and wanted.
Lyra: True. But This “ideal standard” is based on a series of beliefs that really depend on the context we grow up in. These are just social constructions that in each society and at different times mean totally different things. These ideas are so basic. We are all bigger and have much more to be express then “man” or “woman.” All of us. You know what I mean?
Francesco: Absolutely, I see how it is not about being a man or a woman but it is about expressing yourself in your uniqueness. This is what we miss so much in our society! For example, how strong are in the gay community these ideas of how a man is suppose to be, look and act? Most people are so afraid and what is even worse is that they are not aware of their fears.
Lyra: You know, transitioning for me as been about committing to freedom, committing to question any binary, any system that could be just causing trouble. Why does that system exist? Why is it exactly this way? You know, I spent a lot of the last years thinking I would need to become one thing that was only feminine and now I see myself as non-binary and just trans. We all have masculine and feminine aspects of ourselves.
Francesco: Yes, what I like about our pictures is that we were playing with this, we were not trying to make you a man or a woman… but actually going back I would have gone a bit more femme (laughs) .
Lyra: (laughs) I think yes, I agree. But I was also not completely accepting how feminine I wanted to be at that time. I remember being happy with the clothes we chose. It took me a while to become confident to show up, publish, or express myself wearing very feminine clothing. Until recently I hardly ever wore high heels, but that probably also has to do with being so tall.
Francesco: How do people perceive you?
Lyra: People perceive me in public more and more as female ( because of course most people think there are only man and women). I hope most people think ” that’s a woman.” In the case of a binary spectrum, that’s how I prefer to be perceived. I don’t want to be perceived as a man. Before I started actively transitioning, I was feeling so overwhelmed that I could not function in my everyday life. I could not to live up to this male goal, I tried to do it but I just could not. It made me incredibly anxious.
Francesco: You know Lyra, what I feel now that we are talking is how strong you are. I believe it takes SO MUCH bravery to open up and be that authentic with yourself (if at all) and then with others. I deeply admire people like you or Mikey Woodbridge (to name someone we both know).
Lyra: My journey started from the feeling: “I cannot do this anymore.” To go with baby steps to the opposite direction of this feeling. It was not like, “hey now I am a woman, and I am gonna get plastic surgery, shave, and get all new clothes!” That was not my experience. My experience was: “I know there are people that are not man or women, I know that especially indigenous cultures have respected this kind of people and I know that I do not think that I am a man.” That’s how it started for me, it is very gray.
Francesco: I am seeing more and more how all the time and the energy that we spend hiding our own truth is ultimately time and energy we steal from our lives, and how this inner mechanism eventually paralyzes us.
Lyra: You know, now I respect myself for being more than just a body, and the more complexity I am able to imagine, the more complexity I am able to be.
Francesco: Because in the end you are you.
Lyra: Yes, I am that person which is fluid and very open minded, very much into abstract and ideas and so, that’s who I am. I guess! (laughs)
Contact:
www.francescocascavilla.com
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Instagram: @francescocascavilla
lyrapramuk.com
@Facebook
@Soundcloud
Instagram: @lyra____/
Stylist is Gabriele Papi – gabrielepapi.com
Instagram: @gabriele_papi/
