In 2019, I was in contact with Mathilda because I saw a Conversations From Calais poster in London. Conversations From Calais is a project aiming to re-humanise the so-called refugee crisis. Since migrants, asylum-seekers and refugees are often dehumanised and vilified by governments and media organisations around the world, the author wants to show a different angle by sharing conversations with people she or other volunteers have met. If you live in London, you’ve probably seen some of the posters around the city.
If you haven’t seen them yet, you can read some of the conversations in Mathilda’s book “Conversations from Calais: Sharing Refugee Stories” out on 25th May via Welbeck. The book also includes essays by Osman Yousefzada, Gulwali Passarlay, Nish Kumar, Joudie Kalla, Waad Al-Kateab, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Ai Weiwei and Inua Ellams.
KALTBLUT: When did you come up with the idea for Conversations From Calais, and how has it progressed since?
Mathilda: I started volunteering in Calais in 2018 without any specific project in mind. Then, when I began my master’s degree in graphic design, I went back to Calais during my time off. I was so frustrated by the way the media portrayed the so-called refugee crisis both in the UK and across Europe.
I wanted to depict a different perspective of my experiences and share the stories I heard and the conversations I had there. I spent a considerable amount of time contemplating how I could represent these conversations. As my background is in illustration, I considered the most effective way to illustrate these conversations, until realising that leaving them as words would have the most powerful impact.
I ended up writing down the stories as I had collected them in my sketchbook I’d kept when I was in Calais. I was simply sharing what I’d heard from my perspective, as a volunteer. I wanted to get those stories out as quickly and cheaply as possible, so printing them and pasting them up on walls around London was the easiest way.
At some point, I went down to Dover and put some stories on the walls around the town and then started sharing them on social media to reach a bigger audience. The project grew from there, but it hasn’t really changed. I’m still doing the same thing I did when I started.
My intention was to present a different narrative that didn’t conform to the three common storylines prevalent in refugee reporting. The first narrative often portrays refugees as villains, scapegoated for all problems and perceived as taking away everything from us. The second narrative portrays refugees as individuals lacking agency or power, necessitating our help and salvation. Lastly, the third narrative, albeit rare, is employed by many charities, casting refugees as heroes and emphasising the need to welcome them due to their incredible achievements.
I was quite frustrated by that and therefore started the project to share those really simple conversations about what they miss from home, for example, showing how many different narratives there really were.
My intention was to present a different narrative that didn’t conform to the three common storylines prevalent in refugee reporting.
KALTBLUT: How do you make sure you’re not making use of the three narratives you’ve just shared?
Mathilda: To be honest, inherently, I do fall into it because a lot of the project started with conversations I was having myself. Then people volunteered and started submitting their own conversations. Now the project covers conversations by so many people, I can’t control what gets submitted or what people talk about. When you look at what gets the most traction on social media, it’s most likely a tragic story – the ones that are really heartbreaking and difficult to hear. The way I try to counter this is by covering all different types of conversations. When I speak to other volunteers, I tell them to submit ordinary stories.
I want to show the project as a collection of conversations. Maybe there will be one of the conversations that will give you a perceived perception of what a refugee is you’ve already had, or a violent story that depicts what that person has seen and experienced on their journey, but that’s why it’s important to read more than one.
We need to look at this project more holistically, though, and approach it as a collection of conversations. That’s why I wanted to publish the book, I wanted to show them as a whole.
KALTBLUT: You’ve mentioned the media coverage of refugees earlier and globally, I’d say asylum seekers are being vilified by governments and people. Do you feel you’re reaching people with Conversations from Calais?
Mathilda: Impact is hard to measure. I recently went to a talk, and they were saying they’re not trying to reach the people that already care. They’re also not trying to reach the people that are against refugees and are working in the Home Office for instance. Realistically, changing their minds isn’t going to happen. We’re trying to reach a lot of the people that are in between and are unsure about what they think. That’s the kind of audience that I’m trying to reach.
I’ve had messages from people thanking me, saying they’ve never thought about it this way or using this project to have conversations with people in their lives who don’t agree and understand the topic. It’s still hard to measure a tangible impact, though, but this gives me a lot of hope.
The situation for asylum seekers in the UK is getting worse and worse every year. I’ve been doing this project since 2018, so it’s disheartening to see that even if you’re making an impact, maybe you are even changing minds, but the government is moving in the opposite direction. At least I know that I’ve documented what is happening and those conversations will not be forgotten. These stories are worth sharing, they’re worth having on paper and kept as an archive.
We’re trying to reach a lot of the people that are in between and are unsure about what they think. That’s the kind of audience that I’m trying to reach.
KALTBLUT: Do you experience harassment when putting up the stories on the street or online?
Mathilda: I don’t personally get much on social media, but I get some comments sometimes when I’m pasting posters on the street. Sometimes I get comments from people telling me that asylum seekers are the reason they can’t get a hospital appointment or take all our benefits, for example. All I’m doing with the project is telling people what’s happening. Although, obviously it has a specific agenda, you can choose what you want to do with that information, or if you want to engage or not.
At the end of the day, I’m a white French, privileged woman living in the UK. I have a passport that can take me pretty much anywhere in the world, so the amount of harassment I’m going to get is nothing compared to the amount that a refugee and asylum seeker is going to receive.
KALTBLUT: You mentioned the comment about the hospital appointments. I think that goes not only hand in hand with a media narrative, but also the seeming eradication of facts and creating almost alternate realities using asylum seekers and refugees as a scapegoat.
Mathilda: Those opinions that people have come from somewhere, a lot of it from the media and politicians. We can’t put blame on people, we need to put blame on the bigger systems that are creating those narratives. In the UK, the media treats asylum seekers as their scapegoats for pretty much every reason.
We need to humanise this issue. If we live in communities where asylum seekers are part of the community and are allowed and encouraged to be part of our lives, I really think people will change their perceptions. Forming connections with all kinds of people adds a face and a name to the “hoards of people invading our borders” that we are told about, and that can help challenge those narratives.
What I’m also trying to do is encourage people to create those connections, by being a part of asylum seekers’ lives and getting involved in the work that is defending their rights. This is so necessary.
Forming connections with all kinds of people adds a face and a name to the “hoards of people invading our borders” that we are told about, and that can help challenge those narratives.
KALTBLUT: What reactions are you getting from asylum seekers and/or refugees?
Mathilda: I usually get two reactions. Some are surprised that I’m doing a project like this, because they don’t deem those conversations as interesting. The conversations are mainly about their day-to-day lives, so they ask why I would think they’re worthy?
The other reaction that I get is that people are appreciative that someone is listening and shining a light on Calais. Migrants have to constantly give reasoning why they’re a refugee, why they’re seeking asylum, and why they should be given their status. They tell me it starts to feel crazy to them, that some volunteers just want to listen and don’t expect to hear their life story, they just want to have a normal conversation. I think that’s really valuable.
KALTBLUT: The book, Conversations from Calais: Sharing Refugee Stories, edited by you is out today. It includes essays by many prominent figures, such as Ai Weiwei, for example. How did that come about?
Mathilda: I wanted to create a book because I wanted to have a physical copy and archive of the conversations. Additionally, I wanted to have essays by people with lived experience as well as people who have been working in this space for a long time alongside the conversations. I wrote down a list of all my dream contributors, who I think are doing fascinating work. Their stories are different, so you can read them through the eyes of a chef, an artist, a comedian, or a journalist. I reached out to different people that I really looked up to and asked them to respond to different themes that were covered in the conversations, such as food, connection, home and journey.
We’ve got essays from contributors that are Syrian, British, Chinese, Palestinian. One of those contributors is Ai Weiwei, who was one of the main reasons I started the project. I watched his documentary “Human Flow” many years ago and always thought it was such a humble way to portray an issue, to talk about it and to create work that was about bringing people together instead of creating opposing narratives.
KALTBLUT: How did you choose the themes?
Mathilda: I looked through the 300 conversations I had, and I picked up the most recurring themes. People talk a lot about the uncertainty of their future or the food they miss from home, for example. The order these themes are set in the book starts with home and belonging, the middle chapter is loss and longing and the last one is hope and future. My aim was to take people on a journey by showing them the problems but also how much kindness there is in Calais. I wanted to bring across the theme of longing, which is so present when you’re travelling somewhere to seek safety, and we end with the themes of hope and future.
If you want to get involved with Conversations From Calais, you can do so on their website here.
Conversations From Calais: Sharing Refugee Stories, edited by Mathilda Della Torre, is published 20th June by Welbeck Balance, £14.99.
@conversationsfromcalais
@mathildadellatorre
*Please note: This interview has been recorded before the tragic drowning of around 500 people in the Mediterranean Sea. If you’d like to donate/ support sea rescue operations, you can do so via the following organisations:
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